At least 5 people were killed in an Israeli bombing of the headquarters of the Fatah movement east of Nablus

The French permanent representative to the United Nations, Nicolas de Rivière, confirmed in an exclusive interview with Asharq Al-Awsat that what is happening in Gaza is a “tragedy”, calling for the entry of more than 100 aid trucks per day for Palestinians. civilians trapped in the Strip.

Reiterating his condemnation of the “terrorist attacks” carried out by “Hamas” on 7 October, he underlined that “Israel has the right to defend itself”, comparing what is happening to the military operations conducted by France in the Middle East and the Sahel region against “Al-Qaeda”, “And ISIS”. But he added that “civilians should not be a target.”

In the dialogue, which coincided with the Security Council vote on the resolution of “long-term truces” and “safe corridors” across Gaza, the French ambassador considered this position simply a “first step” towards “the end of this crisis”, hoping for “the resumption of a peace process”. Real and credible, leading to a two-state solution” within an agreement containing “security guarantees” for Israel and guaranteeing “state status” for Palestine.

While stressing that “Gaza is Palestinian land,” he affirmed rejection of Israeli proposals to deport its population, warning at the same time that “in the absence of a political perspective,” the world will witness a continuous transition “from a cycle of violence towards others” in the occupied territories.

The senior diplomat also expressed “deep concern” in his country about the possibility of expanding the scope of the war towards the West Bank and Lebanon.

Here is the text of the dialogue:

* The terrible situation in Gaza and Israel reminds me of an article written by your predecessor, Ambassador (François) Delattre, regarding Syria, in which he said: Aleppo was like a cemetery for the United Nations. When you see what is happening now in Gaza, what do you say?

– I think what is happening now is a tragedy. No one can be surprised by recent events. I believe the situation in the Middle East between Israel and Palestine has worsened over time. This is clear. But we are witnessing a new step in this crisis. On October 7, we witnessed an unprecedented terrorist attack against Israel. 1,200 Israelis were killed simply because they were Jews. This must be reported again and again. Israel has the right to defend itself. This should not be repeated. Regarding the situation in Gaza, it is clear that we really need improvement and we need full humanitarian access. What is happening now, of course, is far from enough. The United Nations is doing everything it can to gain greater access. But until recently, only 20 trucks a day entered the Rafah crossing.

We need 100 trucks and more.

AS; I think progress is slow, but it is by no means sufficient. We need not only the delivery of aid, but also full compliance by all parties with international humanitarian law and the Geneva Conventions. Civilians should be protected. Civilians should not be a target. However, terrorists can be a target. We have to free the hostages. What we would like to see at the end of this crisis – and the sooner the better – is the resumption of a real and credible peace process leading to a two-state solution. This is what we have been missing in recent months and years. In the absence of a political perspective, I do not believe we can resolve this crisis. We will go from one cycle of violence to another cycle of violence.

Between terrorists and civilians

*What is your perspective on France? In France, in the United States and everywhere it was said: nothing justifies what Hamas did. Is there any justification for what Israel has been doing in Gaza for 40 days?

– Well, terrorism is definitely out of the question and unacceptable, and terrorists should be held accountable. Military action against terrorists is justified. I can insist; Because France is doing it in the Middle East, as you know, against ISIS. France does it in the Sahel region. AS; We must take military action against terrorists.

Countries attacked by terrorists have the right to defend themselves. This is legal and politically justified. But international law and the Geneva Convention must be respected. As I said before, civilians should not be a target and should be protected. There should be a clear distinction between the fighters, who in this case are terrorists, and the civilian population of Gaza. It’s very clear. This is what we repeat over and over again.

* Perhaps it is clear that the Israelis have failed to distinguish between the civilians and the militants you speak of, who the US and the West consider terrorists…

– No, I think we will continue to demand that all parties respect international law. Of course, Israel has the right to respond to a terrorist attack, but it should target terrorists. This is clear… when Hamas fighters use hospitals and civilian facilities; To have cover and just to make sure the attacks have collateral damage. This is their strategy, and it also contradicts the Geneva Convention and international law. This behavior should also be condemned.

Security for Israel and a State for Palestine

* Although the Security Council will most likely adopt a resolution, this does not mean that the Security Council is effective, as it is the most powerful instrument of the international system. What can you say about it?

-It’s very frustrating; Because the attack on Israel occurred on October 7th. For five weeks the municipality was unable to respond. The Council should have denounced the attack, demanded the release of the hostages, demanded humanitarian aid, respect for international law, etc. Now, as I just said, it is very likely that the Council will take a first step (referring to the resolution already approved). This resolution focuses on humanitarian action in relation to children. AS; It has a very limited focus. Not enough at all. This is also frustrating. But it’s a first step. Therefore; France will support this decision. It’s about children and no one can be against it. I’m having a hard time understanding it. But it’s just an invitation to move forward.

I think we need to give a picture of what is happening in Gaza. We need, as quickly as possible, a comprehensive humanitarian truce, leading to a ceasefire. This is what we need, while respecting Israel’s right to defend itself and prosecute Hamas fighters, who are a legitimate target. What we need, as I said at the beginning, is the resumption of a clear Middle East peace process with Israel and Palestine. Israel’s security should be non-negotiable. Israel should be given security guarantees. Palestine should be granted statehood, without which I believe the crisis will continue. What we have witnessed over the last eight to nine years is the complete absence of a peace process in the Middle East. Bilateral agreements such as the “Abraham Accords” are useful. But it does not address, I repeat once again, the Palestinian question.

Aid is just the beginning

* France played a pioneering role internationally in providing humanitarian aid through the Paris Conference. Do we expect France to follow up on the Paris Conference in the Security Council? Are you preparing something? Can you shed some light on what you do?

– Thank you for mentioning the Paris conference, organized by President (Emmanuel) Macron last week (9 November). It was successful, with many participants, UN agencies and civil society, and we managed to raise almost a billion dollars for Gaza. And this is only the beginning. Therefore; We will continue to push for humanitarian aid for the people of Gaza. There is a sense of emergency. France will do everything it can do here in New York, at the United Nations and in the Security Council in particular, to push the issue towards a resolution and the resumption of the peace process.

Expansion of the war

*Some Israeli officials talk about moving from Gaza to other places. This raises some anger in Egypt and Jordan. Because this is a manipulation of the geopolitical system of the Middle East. There are also people who fear the possibility that the war will spread to Lebanon, the West Bank or even beyond. Is France worried about this matter?

– YES. We are very worried about the possible expansion of the war. I think the crisis in Gaza is bad enough. The last thing we want to see is another crisis in the West Bank.

Indeed, the level of violence has increased significantly in the West Bank in recent weeks, and it must stop. Hamas does not exist in the West Bank. Secondly, tensions between Israel and Lebanon have also increased on the border. The last thing we want is a new front between Israel and southern Lebanon, especially Hezbollah.

Therefore; We are very concerned about the possibility of the war spreading. As for Gaza, we must put an end to this crisis. We must protect civilians. They must be able to remain in their country under peaceful conditions. We are not talking about deporting residents. We must defend international law. Gaza is Palestinian territory.

I believe that the Palestinian people of Gaza should be able to live in peace there. Once again, this crisis is a tragedy. Again, the situation would not have been so tragic if Hamas had not brutally killed 1,200 Israelis five weeks ago. I am sure that the people of Gaza would not have suffered what they are suffering if Hamas had not done this. AS; Let me remind everyone of this.

As a warning

* UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres said: This did not come out of nowhere. This word caused a stir among the Israelis…

– … That’s right. Therefore; I think we need a political solution. In the absence of a political solution for Palestine, but also for Israel in terms of security, this situation could arise again and again. I think it should serve as a warning.

*A final word, Mr. Ambassador?

– I really hope that we can contribute to a solution in Gaza. The sooner the better. I am not asking Israel to stop its actions against Hamas fighters. I believe this intervention is legitimate and justified. But I believe we must protect all civilians in Gaza and beyond. They shouldn’t be a target. They should receive humanitarian aid as quickly as possible. Once the situation in Gaza returns to normal, I believe it will be urgent to relaunch a real and credible peace process.