Don Joe is one of the wise fathers of Italian hip hop

“You see? We managed to do an interview for almost an hour and I never asked you if there will be a Club Dogo reunion»: and at this, Don Joe bursts out laughing. To then add: «Thanks, oh. Really. We are friends, with Jake and Guè… But now it’s simply not what. And having people keep asking you, well, after a bit of a flutter.’ But in fact it would have been stupid to set up a chat with the author of the excellent one Don Dada out these days setting everything on the messianic expectation of some mention of the rebirth of the Dogo (and/or on the attempt to extort it, but we are quite sure that at the moment, quite simply, there is nothing to extort). That would have been silly, because with this album Don Joe proves that he is a very high quality producer. Much more than in the past, we venture to say.

Oh: not that we actually thought it was underrated, or overrated. In the lineage of producers linked to the Italian hip hop scene he has always been one of the most solid, precise, powerful, professional. And hearing the opening of the album, the astute and a bit paraculo Latinism with Boro Boro by Alone, a device made to work as a hit («Eh, let’s hope…» the Don’s comment), we had strengthened our convictions. The point is that what comes later is… better. As never before, the third-of-Dogo puts at the service of its proverbial strength and precision in the sounds a vein of invention, creativity, ability to start from sound clichés (of trap, of hip hop a little more classic ) unedited, very strong, and without churning out a deconstructed noise disc or psychedelic post rock – it always remains firmly within the confines of urban music, for heaven’s sake – puts into play one of the best “producer” records ever released in Italy.

A record that shouldn’t have been. “This was originally not going to be a full album, but more of a mixtape. Or a series of single songs, to be released gradually, without precise times, with the pleasure of experimenting. Then you know, recording issues, the deals, these things here, in the end it had to become an album with all the trappings. But it’s okay that it went like this, eh. Because if I’d known from the beginning that it had to become the classic “producer’s record”, I would have been terrified».

Excuse me? Terrified? You? “Yes. Why do you have any idea what a bang it is? Bring all those people together, find ways to work your way through their calendars, still think of something that works as a whole. Look, I see records like Skinny’s coming out (The Night Skinny

, nda) and I wonder how much patience and constancy he must have had. I don’t want to go into that thing anymore. Much better to work in a more agile way. As indeed it was for Don Dada».

Effectively Don Dada is different from Milan soprano than two years ago (much more full of heavyweights and pluri-affirmed names), and even more compared to theNow or never of 2015. Which is a work we are actually very interested in returning to: «True, in the end that was a very ambitious experiment». But gone bad. “Already”. How come? «Everyone was there, there were some very big names: Emma Marrone, Giuliano dei Negramaro… just to mention two names. It could finally be the record where urban and pop culture meet». As in fact then it happened. Indeed, as is happening big time. “Already. But it turns out that 2015 was too early. There were these names from the madonna of pop, but also Emis Killa who was exploding at the time, there was obviously the Dogo – indeed, thinking back on it, that is the last piece of the Dogo all together, think what stuff, who would ever said. However, in the end that record was abandoned, choices were made once it came out, some marketing stuff. In short, the fact is that he was completely abandoned to himself, and died, without leaving too much trace».

“But you know what,” continues Don Joe, “it was evidently too early. Who could have imagined that the urban and pop worlds would mix so much? Nobody, fuck! Today, however, it is normal. At the time it seemed too risky. Too much, too risky.” And do you like that today it has become so normal? This question is followed by a long pause… «I like listening to well-made music». Okay. «Then if you ask me if I expected it to become such an established phenomenon, well, honestly the answer is: no. But really: no. The structural orientation of what moves behind the music has changed. Today the conditions are created for certain things to happen and work».

All right. But you’re not really answering me yet. «Let’s say that in the place of certain artists I would not have made certain choices. But saying it doesn’t even make much sense, because for me the freedom to express oneself is sacred, if one feels like making certain breakthroughs it is right that he does them. And when powerful pieces come out, what else do you want to say?”. Guy Ash of Lazza… «Bravo. That’s a fortissimo piece, really beautiful. What are you criticizing for? But it’s also true that I wouldn’t have put a piece like that on the album, that is, if you come from rap, it’s not that…». It’s not that…? “But no, leave it alone. Again, the freedom of the artist is sacred. I respect her very much. I’m just saying that on personal taste I wouldn’t have made such a strong reversal towards pop. Think how things have fucking changed, how roles have been reversed: once upon a time I was the one who took my words because I flirted too much with pop…». Ironic smile.

Returning to the discourse of freedom, let’s plan on the texts. There are, in Don Dada, very strong moments, very raw, also wanting very questionable as regards the lyrics. “Real. And I don’t agree with everything that is being said. But who the fuck am I to say to someone, “Hey, don’t say that, that’s bad to say?” He pauses. «If you see that a guy has his own idea and his own aesthetic, he’s right to carry it forward. If he then he wants advice or he wants an opinion, I’m more than happy to give it. But how ridiculous would I be if I started being a moralist? How stupid and out of place would I be to say “This is not said, this is not done”? Not that I’ve done who knows what in my life, but above all as a young man I let myself go… And why should I get to the point of imposing bans, moralizing now? Why? You see, if someone tells me “That’s how I feel about it, I want to tell it like this” and I see that it’s decided, it’s right that I carry on with her line. Because this is art. It’s expressiveness. And you don’t have to put a brake on art and expression. We’re talking about music: what the fuck do you have to limit, in music? Why should you do this? Also in consideration of the fact that not having limited anything, look at what we’ve managed to build all together, in rap, in the world. Watch it. It doesn’t seem like much to me, does it?».

The speech absolutely line. But: has it ever happened to you, in these years, that you still feel a bit like a father, one who is now a bit wiser, and who would perhaps be in a position to give advice? «In fact, I know that certain things often lead nowhere or are even harmful, even if they fascinate you when you’re a kid. Clear. Now I know well. But again: no limitations. Who wants to listen to me, I’m happy to give advice; otherwise, trust. And everyone’s freedom to do what the fuck they want, if they really want it, if they’re aware of what they’re doing.’

«You know, for me it was already strange at the time of the Dogos: when we got together I already had my professional experiences, but they were very young, they were like 17 years old, do you understand? At the same time, however, we were all equal: it’s not that I felt superior. It was weird. But here, some things they plunged into I had already done. And it was a dynamic that I had already passed through as a kid: in Bresso, in my company, there were still the older ones, the ones who were already blowing while you smoked high, so you felt that there was a gap, a difference in experience… but still we all felt part of the same thing. With the Dogos I was the one a little more advanced in terms of experiences and who had already done and tried this and that other one, so it’s not that I needed to continue, to still be in it with a dead body. We were still very united. But do you know what the absurd thing is, today?».

No. Go, tell me everything. «The absurd thing is that today they are the ones with the children. She guè has one daughter, Jake two children. Today I am Benjamin Button, I feel like it, I who don’t have any children yet; while I see them having to face a different, more mature perspective. It’s normal to be like this and it makes me very impressed, not in a bad way, on the contrary. It makes me smile, yes. Again: roles that are reversed. It’s difficult for them then. I faced the transition between 30 and 40 by working full throttle, making studio productions, they with the fact that they are so exposed for the role they have and at the same time their lives have changed so radically… it’s a mess. In fact, you see that they suffer a little from this thing. Guè maybe less, he is more self-confident, but I think that even when he is surrounded by sixteen year olds he sometimes finds himself thinking “Oh, what two balls…”, smiles Don Joe. To then resume: «In some ways, however, I see everything in a more “planed” way: I don’t feel this transition between mature age and the previous phase, everything is much more fluid».

In fact, in this record you unravel between rappers who tend to be very young. “Indeed the dada of the title has precisely that meaning there, that of daddy

Jamaican…”. And you’re young – and wonderfully interesting – even in many tracks, where you grapple with the stylistic elements of trap. Evolving them in a very creative way, like type in Die Young. «Trap is a territory in which I hardly enter. Especially as a producer, look: because then maybe when I go to DJ in the evenings I play it, yes. But when I have to produce it, I feel that I’m not entirely smart, that in short it’s not a territory entirely mine: the result is that I often come up with things that are out of the ordinary. Which on the one hand makes me afraid of having screwed up, and in fact I throw away a lot of things; on the other, every now and then I have the impression of having found the right key, even managing to be original».

«In general, however, I think that almost everyone who produces the trap also gropes a lot, sometimes it’s really difficult to understand if something is cool or if it sucks, you only understand it later. Let’s say that a criterion for me is to see who did what: if it’s music that comes from Roddy Ricch or Future, I force myself to listen to it carefully, because you know they’re not the latest arrivals. On the other hand, if it’s a kid’s record and the first two tracks make you sick and you also have the impression they were produced in a basement, well, I’ll stop listening right away. Without the slightest sense of guilt. Why should I waste time listening to music over which the usual four crosswords are said above, because too often it is like this, and even badly done? It’s an effort that I gladly spare myself, yes».