Olivia Rodrigo talked courage with Linda Perry and sang fan favorite Lacy

The process of spilling your guts was at the center of a conversation between Olivia Rodrigo and veteran songwriter and producer Linda Perry at the Grammy Museum on Wednesday night, before the young pop champion took to the piano and acoustic guitar to sing solo versions of three hits and/or fan favorites from her new album: “Vampire”, “Making the Bed” and “Lacy”.

While the conversation inevitably leaned more toward the mechanics and philosophy of writing than personal details, Rodrigo kept fans at her fingertips in the intimate audience with glowing references to how she came to write several new songs. There were also passing revelations, such as the fact that she took a poetry class at the University of Southern California last year, which helped create one of the most talked about songs on the new release “Guts”, or that St. Vincent is a previously unmentioned collaborator . on the bonus track “Obsessed”.

“In this time of music, when we’re being fed a lot of different styles, I don’t buy a lot of it,” said Perry, known as a member of 4 Non Blondes and her work with Pink, Christina Aguilera and Dolly. Parton – Beginning interrogation of Rodrigo. “It’s like extorting money. What I love about Olivia is that I believe every word I hear.”

“If I don’t write songs, I don’t really feel like myself,” Rodrigo said. “This is the way I process everything. It’s how I decide how I relate to the world. It just makes me happy. This makes me angry. For me, that’s it… I think there’s definitely a lot of darkness in me, as there is in every person. I’ve always loved how writing melodies, choruses and lyrics can express it in ways that aren’t easily expressed in everyday life. Sometimes people meet me and recognize me and they always say, “Wow, you’re such a fun and cheerful girl, (but) you write such depressing songs.” But I think songwriting is a way to express the unspeakable and just understand what you feel. And that’s why I’ve always liked it, ever since I was a kid.”

Perry mentioned that she liked the track “Obsessed”, although after she thought it was a song from Rodrigo’s debut album, the young singer politely corrected her. “It’s actually a bonus track, which is cool. “You are very skillful,” said Rodrigo. “It’s fun, but a little more complicated. I did this with my friend Annie Clarke from St. Vincent and she is absolutely incredible. I adore her as a person and she’s one of my musical heroes, so she was on this track. And it’s kind of a song about a deranged, angry girl that I like.” “Obsessed” was one of four songs that Rodrigo noted as hidden tracks on the various vinyl editions of the Guts album, and without printed credits, St. Vincent’s involvement was not widely publicized.

Perry asked about the key track on the new album’s standard edition, “Lacy,” perhaps innocently talking about it and probably unaware of how obsessed fans were with who the tune might be about, or a celebrity. as is widely believed. Rodrigo had no intention of abandoning the song, but she did discuss its etymology.

“Is there a real person who is being talked about in Lacey,” Perry wondered? “I mean, this is who you want, baby!” Rodrigo snapped, laughing.

“Last year I took a poetry class at the University of Southern California. I’ve always been really interested in poetry… So I took this class and it was amazing. I wrote a poem called “Lacy” about the all-encompassing envy I felt about one of my class assignments. It was like homework. And I liked it so much that I turned it into this song. This is one of my favorites.” Later, introducing the final version of the song, which she performed on acoustic guitar, she said: “I just remember sitting at the kitchen counter and I wrote, ‘Lacey, oh Lacy, skin like puff pastry…’ And I thought, ‘Oh, this interesting,” finished the poem and turned it into a song.” Let the speculation continue.

Introducing “Making the Bed,” which she performed on piano, Rodrigo said, “I wrote this song about feeling like I was putting myself in a place or putting myself with people that didn’t necessarily bring me complete peace or happiness—and kind of taking responsibility for your actions. That responsibility is a big theme on the new Guts album, and I feel like I didn’t get to touch on that on the last Sour album, so I’m really proud of that. “

Rodrigo also discussed with Perry other differences between the two albums, including what she believes is the new album’s more aggressive musical feel.

“Brutal” was the last track we added to my first album, “Sour.” We had a week to turn the album around; this was the decisive moment. And I was in a car with someone and they were talking about some traffic jam or something, and they were like, “God, it’s violent out here.” And I thought: hmm, this is interesting, we’ll put it in a notebook. … The verses can be talkative, but I wanted to let the emotion out (in the simpler chorus). I think I was 17 years old at the time; I was full of angst and rage and this song was a great way for me to express that.

“My music, especially on Guts, is very rocking. I’ve always been inspired by these energetic and raw sounds. This is the music I grew up with,” she said, although elsewhere in the conversation she said she also grew up listening to country artists like Tanya Tucker. “I think I kind of found my voice towards the end of the process of making the Sour album, in the rock space, towards the end. We kind of explore that more on ‘Guts,’ and I’m really happy with how those songs turned out… I think part of my personality was discovered a little later.”

When asked by Perry if she could name one song she’d most like to write, Rodrigo hemmed and hawed before quoting Alanis Morissette’s “You Oughta Know.” For her part, Perry called Supertramp’s “Logic Song,” which she expected most of the Grammy Museum audience to be too young to know, although some whispers assured her otherwise. “I don’t even really like the band,” Perry admitted, “but there’s something about that song that makes me, like, a happier Linda.” She quickly added, “By the way, I love your song “Logical” too,” noting the coincidence that Rodrigo has a (non-Supertramp) tune with that title on “Guts.”

Perry read an audience question about advice for young music lovers: “God, I mean, maybe don’t get mad at your dad when he makes you take piano lessons? It turned out to pay off very well.”

Perry asked if Rodrigo had a favorite line she’s ever written. “On “Sour,” I always cry when I think about the line from “Enough For You”: “Someday I’ll be everything to someone else.” … There’s a line from “The Grudge” on that record, “Guts,” that I really like: “It takes strength to forgive, but I don’t feel strong.”

In a “Kids Say the Darndest Thing” moment, Perry asked her 8-year-old son, Rhodes, to get on stage and ask who his favorite person was. Although she clearly encouraged the witness to name the company on stage, things may not have gone as expected. “Cher,” her son blurted out.